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Peace or War?

Discussion in 'Intelligent Discussion' started by Charismatic_Caterpie, Jan 8, 2009.

  1. mrmystic

    mrmystic MoreAkwardthanaJewateastr

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    I have a different view on this. America needs to take care of America, and not worry so much about everyone else as we have in the last decade. We can do alot more good to the world if we have a strong country to start from.
     
  2. Chaossama

    Chaossama Just a user, literally

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    That is true enough, but then you get into the whole question of: Shouldn't it be our duty to help them, even on the basis of being human beings? Countries are in need, should we deny them like that? America needs to be strong, yes, but at what cost should it be?
     
  3. mrmystic

    mrmystic MoreAkwardthanaJewateastr

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    Whole new can of worms, but I don't mind. As I said, a strong America is in a much better position to help other people. Should we help, maybe... however it's not our duty, not our responsibilty. I don't see any countries offering to bail us out of our problems. Some areas of the world have much worse problems then the ones we tried to fix. it didn't go so hot for us, maybe we should take a lesson and step back.
     
  4. Chaossama

    Chaossama Just a user, literally

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    Definitely. I know what you mean. Generally, I believe that America is not obligated to help anyone. UNFORTUNATELY, with the position of the world's only remaining superpower, countries will demand help and generally look to America for help and guidance. Not doing so would probably affect that, probably in the way that other countries deal with us, so yeah, tricky business. Very tricky.
     
  5. mrmystic

    mrmystic MoreAkwardthanaJewateastr

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    Do you honestly believe that? That if we help say Nicaragua, with UN aid, that North Korea will treat us differently? Or helping tsunami victims will make China trade fair with us? I think that helping people is fine and good, but doing so when your own country could use that help is foolish and weak.
     
  6. Chaossama

    Chaossama Just a user, literally

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    Honestly I don't, but that's the propaganda being sent out......

    My personal opinion on all this: If they can't help themselves, they're doing something wrong. Most times, you'll find that in cases of poverty, its mostly because the leaders are greedy (read somewhere that they said something like 10% of all charity actually gets to the people. The rest goes into the leaders' pockets. Some deep pockets they have there...). In cases of war, most times people stepping in actually make the situation WORSE. Worse off, because they believe the US will step in, they sit back and relax.

    That is my true belief. I was just spouting off the propaganda that the Media seems to throw at us quite a bit.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2009
  7. BulletSponge

    BulletSponge Bored with this site

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    War is a collision of powers and a fact of life. Deal with it and stop holding little rallies or discussions about how we can unite mankind it won't happen. Many people have tried to do this over tens of thousands of years and failed.
    My advice to war and bloodshed?
    -Stay away from it
    -Support it
    -Join it and make a life out of it (like me)
     
  8. SarahPalin

    SarahPalin Viva los Devo

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    Guys... war solves things temporarily, but it just increases tensions between teh groups involved, and prokoves future conflicts... I'm very interested in wars and conflicts, but PEACE IS TEH WAY TO GO

    Thank you.

    Edit:
    I say teh alot, it not a typo. :|
     
  9. Chaossama

    Chaossama Just a user, literally

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    Oh, at least I'm not saying that Peace isn't the way to go. I just say that only peace pretty much impossible because there'll always be conflicts.
     
  10. Mr. Buttapple

    Mr. Buttapple Sell by Date, 9/01/2010

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    ive always had a idea that everythink sould be free and everyone takes a equal amount end of world starvation and poverty! :)
     
  11. Chaossama

    Chaossama Just a user, literally

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    That kind of idea is what everyone should work for. Unfortunately, reality calls and it's pretty harsh. People are greedy at expense of others and have no problem doing so, and poverty will exist because not enough people care. If all the people who cared about the Superbowl or some other sports game cared about poverty and third-world countries, we might be in a very good path there.
     
  12. Charismatic_Caterpie

    Charismatic_Caterpie Professional Gamer

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    And that is exactly why war will always be around, and always needed, Chaossama. Well, not really why it's needed, really, but I've already explained why I think it's necessary in my first post.

    True peace is unattainable, and ultimately tied in to militaristic and martial ways. How would the peace ever last, or exist in the first place, without the threat of pain and death looming over people by the machinations of a military/law-enforcing body controlled by a higher governmental power? The optimists, hippies, idealists, idiots, the ones who believe that "pure", unenforced peace is truly attainable through some whimsical day dream: They are only lying to themselves.
     
  13. Blaze

    Blaze Guest

    Unfortunately, I also believe that true peace is unattainable without resorting to extremes.

    Don't get me wrong, Peace is attainable, but you'd have to give up many things you may treasure, the predominant one being "Choice".

    When multiple power-wielding parties have different choices, there is disagreement, where there is disagreement, there is conflict, and that conflict may or may not lead to violence. No matter what philosophers may say, I cannot accept that murder, violence, genocide, and other such acts are normal human nature and are therefore unavoidable. We have the ability to sort disagreements without resorting to war, but that requires thinking and collaborative effort, neither of which is easy.

    Thinking has proven to be very difficult, "I need to make sure everyone in the entire world is happy!", yeah... I'll get right on that. Complete collaboration between nations has also proven very difficult, "I need that. Well I need that too.". Each individual nation pursues interests that are profitable to themselves, and only take part in projects that will result in gain for their nation, but that is how diplomacy works: Gain is necessary, mutual gain is nice, but not always possible.

    This also trickles down to a personal level as well. For example, if you want something, you must earn it, so you work. However, someone also wants it, so they work to earn it as well, and there is only one said item. Would you work WITH that person and then share/split the item? Some would say yes, but some would also say no; the result being work done at a slower rate and one person being disappointed. Competition for limited resources inevitably leads to conflict, but said competition is also the basis of a capitalistic economy, so this happens thousands of times a minute.

    And this is only a tiny part of what prevents true peace, I haven't mentioned laziness or pride, both of cause unnecessary conflict. One person declares himself/herself better than another and looks down on them. One person decides he's/she's automatically obligated for something without earning it.

    Some say war is its own reason to fight, but is it justified? Killing a few to save many more does seem logically sound, but who decides who will die? If someone came over and told you that you need to die in order to save others on the other side of the planet that you barely know about, would you die without questioning? Killing someone intentionally is murder, war only legalizes it and puts it on a large scale.

    In my theory, true peace is only possible with absolute, unquestionable, unbiased authority (Which I believe is impossible for a human), or absolutely no conflict (No sentient life). Hopefully, someone out there will prove me wrong and make me eat my words.

    As it stands today, we have domestic violence, robbery, assault, crime, and many other forms of "war" on a daily basis. Let's just focus on finding a way to settle arguments without fighting before contemplating a concept which would require everyone on Earth to change to a completely different way of life. Baby steps.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2009
  14. raul-oo

    raul-oo Incest, no biggy !

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    thats true we would have no good programmes
     
  15. deryni

    deryni king kick spamming a**

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    in my personal opinion, i prefer war more. Not that i like killing, i just don't care about it. Death is nothing, really. Peace is alright for a time, but war is absolutely essential. Without war, death would only be natural and would take awhile to obtain, and with no death, then the human race would overpopulate and we would all die a horrific death involving starvation because we destroyed the earth. We would turn cannibalistic and the earth would have no life on it, except for maybe a few plants here and there. Death is the beginning and the end. Everything is meant to die someday, if only to make way for something better. If dinosaurs wouldn't have died, we would be dead too. We wouldn't have survived this long. With the way things are going now, we'll eat everything inferior to us and we'll be the last things left. Death is needed more than crack to a crack head. Opinions matter too, of course, but essentially death is the end for a new beginning in something better.
     
  16. abucard

    abucard n00b

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    why?

    i have seen more war then i war wanted to, having been to iraq for desert strom, and if one thing rang true, it was that i would have happened no matter what anyone did. Some of the kids ran to see us in many villages, and so many had only ribs. I have seen that war is a must, because power is a bad thing, and blackens your core. And some one must stop it every now and then. Yes i know this off topic, but most wars have been fought over that one thing everyone wants... Power
     
  17. LHS_7857

    LHS_7857 n00b

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    HEY i say peace because if the war was still goin on maybe the economy would be better and people wouldnt lose jobs just think what would happen in the future if there was peace.
     
  18. brady harper

    brady harper n00b

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    snake hes cool not the killing and guns but cool

    I know iy will be beter
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2009
  19. TheProfessional

    TheProfessional Flash Artist

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    Hmmm, I’m only posting here now because well I only saw this here right now. Hoping it not considered grave digging, but I do have a few views on the subjects. Also I was going to quote a few people but there are so many different ideas and a few arguments with weak pillars that I thought I would just start from scratch and give my own thoughts on it and try to address some of the issues that other people wrote down.

    *cracks knuckles, starts typing*

    Before I even begin, I am going to define my version of war. War is armed conflict between groups, and I use the terms groups lightly. War is Macro and affects many, even people that are not involved directly. Petty crime and general fights like gangs or back in the olden days between nobles don’t count because the situation is very different. Those can be prevented and handled differently; you don’t apply macro ideas to micro situations. Violence in general is separate from war.

    Why war starts seems to be one of the biggest points of this topic and it been though few times. If war were solely started because of difference in ideas, then they could just talk them out. However wars aren’t started like that. War is always about one thing, more resource, whether it is greed or necessary, it always about resources in the end, either acquiring or defending. Liberty or aid is just smoke screen governments give, it all about resources and alliances.

    And so I finally get to the main point: Are wars necessary (as the way Charismatic_Caterpie puts it), No. I say that with conviction that you wouldn’t believe. Diplomacy and ‘true’ peace are attainable, but the people truly don’t want it yet, as a whole, people are insecure about such a thing. Ones that are for it are commonly called optimists, hippies, idealists or idiots. However such people are growing in numbers and I feel that the world is getting smaller has we go though the days, and contrary to the first post made, I believe we are actually heading to a more globalized society where we can work together to solve the problems of the future. Together is the key word there. Wouldn’t that advance us further then working against each other.

    “You may say that I'm a dreamer
    But I'm not the only one
    I hope someday you'll join us
    And the world will live as one”
    - John Lennon

    Edit: Shoot important thing I'm missing, a rebuttal that I'm already prepare to face. Were Previous wars necessary : yes, Because of the evil that was and the general greed and following of men that wouldn’t stop, however in the future I believe the world grows better and we can all be friends. However the past is a squence of events that happened, the future is a sequence events that we control.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2009
  20. Nicholasdude

    Nicholasdude Banned

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    Nick is here

    well all i have to say is that this subject is worse then chewing wet leathery crap. BUT i must say that war is good except the the beginning of one's that are impossible to win in or to even come out of.
     

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